Man Decapitated ‘Beheaded’ Aboard Greyhound Bus – Canada – Updates
July 31, 2008 by national
Filed under Homeland Security News
A man aboard a Canada Greyhound bus was decapitated after being repeatedly stabbed b y another passenger. Police said Thursday they didn’t know what prompted a passenger on a Greyhound bus heading to Winnipeg to viciously attack the man sitting next to him.
Passengers said the man repeatedly stabbed his seat-mate before beheading him and carrying the victim’s head around the bus.
Shocked passengers described the horrific attack as something incomprehensible.
Victim and Assailant Identified
Police have not confirmed the identity of the man stabbed to death aboard a bus late Wednesday and beheaded, according to witness accounts, but friends have said it was Tim McLean Jr., 22, of Winnipeg. (Tim McLeans MySpace Page)
RCMP announced Friday morning that they have charged Vince Weiguang Li, 40, of Edmonton with second-degree murder. He is scheduled to appear at the Manitoba provincial court in Portage la Prairie.
Face of Evil - Vince Weiguang Li
One moment, the quiet man near the back of the bus was minding his own business. The man hadn’t talked to anyone around him, and seemed to pay no attention to the younger fellow sitting next to him, who was listening to music on headphones.
The next moment, witnesses said, the older man stood up, still quiet, and repeatedly stabbed, then beheaded his younger victim.
“We heard this blood-curdling scream and turned around, and the guy was standing up, stabbing this guy repeatedly, like 40 or 50 times,” Garnet Caton said Thursday from a hotel in Brandon, Man., where he and other passengers had been taken to rest.
“There was no rage or anything. He was like a robot, stabbing the guy.”
Caton said the bus stopped and everyone scrambled to get out while the attacker started methodically carving up the victim’s body, not paying attention to anyone else.
Caton and the driver shut the bus door from the outside while they waited for police to arrive.
“We put our bodies up against the door, waiting for him to come out … and he went back and brought the head to the front and pretty much displayed it … and dropped it on the ground in front of us,” Caton said.
“All very calmly. He was wearing sunglasses. It was no big deal to him.”
Fellow passenger Cody Olmstead from Kentville, N.S., also recalled the chilling scene.
“The guy came to the front of the door with buddy’s head in his hands, decapitated. He dropped the head and went back and started cutting the body back up,” Olmstead said.
Live Police Radio Transmissions
Here’s a piece of information not making it into the MSM who are describing what Li did to the body only as “desecration”: Li ate some of his victim’s flesh.
From a police scanner recording of an officer at the scene describing events as they happened:
[Li is] at the back of the bus, hacking off pieces and eating it.
Listen below… (WARNING GRAPHIC)
More detailed account here
Caton said he heard a “blood-curdling scream” and turned around to see the attacker holding a large “Rambo” hunting knife above the victim, “continually stabbing him in the chest area.”
“He must have stabbed him 50 times or 60 times,” said Caton.
“Like, just everywhere, arms, legs, neck, chest, guts, wherever he could swing it, he got it,” said Olmstead.
“It looked kind of like a scuffle or an argument, you know, and then somebody’s, like, ‘Knife! Knife! Run!’ so I was running up the alleyway, slapping people telling them to get going, move, get off the bus. I got pushed over, some lady got pushed over, I was just making sure everybody was OK, and we all got off the bus,” said Olmstead
As panicked passengers fled the bus, “the attacker was over top of the victim … continually cutting him. I think the victim was gone at that point,” Caton said.
Trio tried to check on victim
Caton, the driver and a trucker who had stopped at the scene later boarded the vehicle to see if the victim was still alive.
“When we came back on the bus, it was visible at the end of the bus he was cutting the guy’s head off and pretty much gutting him up,” said Caton.
The attacker ran at them, Caton said, and they ran out of the bus, holding the door shut as he tried to slash at the trio.
When the attacker tried to drive the bus away, the driver disabled the vehicle, Caton said.
“While we were watching the door, he calmly walks up to the front with the head in his hand and the knife and just calmly stares at us and drops the head right in front of us,” said Caton.
“They did an awesome thing, holding him in there, because if not, what would have happened?” said Olmstead.
Video of Witnesses
TR asked why the RCMP didn’t just shoot the suspect and it’s a fair question. Not having been there I won’t judge but the police are only allowed to used deadly force to protect themselves or members of the public from death or grevious bodily harm or to prevent the escape of someone who has already done so ‘provided no less violent means are available’. In this case I imagine the mounties knew:
1. The victim was dead
2. The killer was the only other person aboard the bus so no third party was in danger.
which would have made shooting him hard to justify at that point. When he attempted to escape through the bus window I imagine they’d have been quite justified in shooting him but managed to subdue him without doing so.
Frankly, it’s a shame they didn’t shoot him because unless I miss my guess, he’ll turn out to be a psycho who’s off his meds. He’ll be found Not Criminally Responsible and sent to an institution until some doctor says he cured and he’ll be released again. I’m not being critical because I wasn’t there and I’d never criticize those that were, I’m just saying it’s too bad.
As for all the armchair quarterbacks who are critical of the other passengers for not slashing the attacker’’s jugular with a buck knife or strangling him with a purse strap or several other novel suggestions, big talk from the safety of their homes. I’d be willing to bet that if any of them were there the only thing they’d have done was piss their pants. As someone who’s been in life-threatening situations I can tell you it’s not like it is on TV. Mental cases have super-human strength and are impervious to pain. You’d be crazy to take on a guy like this with anything less than a gun. In this case, by the time anyone realized what was going on there was nothing they could do for this poor kid anyway. They had the presence of mind to get off the bus, save themselves, and contain the suspect likely preventing a lot of other deaths. Well done, I say.
I agree with people here who say that there was not much that could be done. Yes there were many more people than the bloody murderer, but what? Are they armed with guns or even knives? Were there even enough space for all the passengers to go after the perpetrator together or would they be blocked by narrow aisles and get cut down one by one? And when they fail to subdue the maniac, what then? Would they even have enough space to run or would they step over one another? Even if the person next to the killer had a gun, can he really shoot in that narrow space without it hitting another person too? Or would it penetrate the psychopath and kill the victim also (granted it would have been an easier death for the unfortunate young man)? Seriously! To be simple-minded is one thing, to be idiotic is another.
Why in the world are ONLY second degree murder charges being done????He smoked with this Indian person targeted out victim in a group and decided after hearing him in conversation to move his things from the front to sit beside him so definitely some premeditation having come equipped with such a knife one does not usually go about with and changing seats not to mention the heinous nature of the crime. I do not understand why they did not shoot him dead rather than let him return to the body and start eating upon it.
I am also wondering why they released such a picture of the victim considering respect for innocent deceased and family. It must be for Canadians to go along with loss of their personal liberties getting searched every where they go,too.
I had heard Indians were called red skins since they turned this color not ashen when extreme loss of blood. When you see his facebook page he looked fairly Caucasian mixed.
What a shame everyone ran away from his cries. Certainly they could have knocked him out with all the luggage as a shield. I heard on the U.S. buses the drivers carried guns after a previous incident and got the cage around their seat to protect them.
I bet the drunks in the jail the mind controlled guy got taken to sobered up quickly if in the same cell with this guy.
It was shocking out of all those people no one helped him and shocking the police didn’t shoot the guy at all going back to eat the victim and continuing his heinous crimes dismembering the person.Are Greyhound windows bullet proof?What about all those tazers?
I was on a Greyhound bus a week ago leaving from Arizona headed east to New Jersey. It was my forth Greyhound bus trip in a month. I must say that in all my travels on Greyhound I witnessed no security procedures to keep passengers safe since 9/11. At bus stops they have no scanners to check cargo luggage or carry-on baggage. I was surprised by some of the carry-on baggage some passengers took on the bus. I guess they didn’t want to pay the $5.00 fee for more than one cargo luggage. While on my travels to all these excessive stopovers I felt very uncomfortable knowing that at a moment someone could do something heinous like what happened in Canada.
This crime could have been prevented not by terrified passengers fleeing the bus. All you macho people who claim you would have done something heroic to save that man is nonsense. You would have fled the bus, too. So give the passengers a break from your heroic overtones.
This is Greyhounds responsibility for not preventing this in the first place. They are responsible for the safety of their passengers. Their motto is, “Leave the driving to us.” That is fine and dandy, but what about providing security measures that could have prevented this in the first place? if the “Sicko Killer” carry-on baggage was in a scanner being searched for weapons, they would have spotted the Rambo style knife and informed him THIS IS NOT A CARRY-ON ITEM. And what you don’t do is have the passenger take it out of his baggage himself to place in his cargo luggage if he had any. You let security take control of that weapon.
Its sad that this tragedy happened, but it usually takes innocent victims to lose their life before procedures are changed. Greyhound is liable for this tragedy.
After this sad news I won’t leave the driving to Greyhound anymore until they have safe security measures. Our lives are worth more than the cheap bus ticket.
The kid was dead before anyone could have helped him. I’m amazed at the fact that most people don’t actually understand what they read. It was in the dead of night, close cramped quarters, everyone half asleep. It wasn’t a scuffle between the murder and the victim, it was a brutal slaughter in mere seconds. Any hero that would have jumped in would have been dead also.
Adrenaline will not save you against this type of person, they are calm and calculated, they are not distracted, and they don’t miss. You would be dead.
Anybody who would have jumped in would have become another statistic, and for nothing, the kid was already dead.
The only type of person who would have stood a chance against this psycho is either someone like him, or someone with extensive training for just such a situation. There was nobody on that bus equipped or trained to deal with him.
It’s not about strength, it’s not about size, it’s about state of mind.
A seasoned cop with a gun in those close quarters would not have survived against him, because he would have had to hesitate, to be sane, psychos do not hesitate, they are deliberate, detached.
Everybody has a plan, until they get hit, then it’s a whole different story.
I’m not surprised by all the hero’s commenting on what “They” would have done. Way too many action movies will do that to a person, they are as ‘out of touch’ with reality as the murderer. I can assure you, none of you would have survived, and most of you would have been the first ones out the door.
EVERYDAY SOCIETY VIVIDLY DEMONSTRATES HOW INHUMANE IT HAS BECOME.. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS INCIDENT WILL NOT SINK INTO OUR PSCHE BEFORE ANOTHER ONE OF THIS MAGNITUDE OCCURS.
WE ARE LIVING AT A TIME WHERE WE ARE FEARFUL OF HAVING A FLAT TIRE IN AN ISOLATED AREA, AND FEAR FUL OFTHE PERSON WHO STOPS TO HELP US. IN OTHER WORDS, WE ARE ALL AFRAID OF EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY! YOU KNOW WHAT? WE AS A PEOPLE HAVE DONE IT TO OURSELVES. NEW LAWS MUST BE LEGISLATED, SINCE THE PUNISHMENT NO LONGER FITS THE CRIME.
We must always remember that the killer is a human being. The most important thing right now is to find out how we can stop this from happening again. This man had no criminal record, which goes to show that anyone could flip like this.
Personally, I think the passengers did the right thing. The victim was already dead. All they could do was prevent the killer from exiting the bus and hurting anyone else.
ps. I am a Brit, don’t all attack me at once!
Hope all crazy evil people like that all get together and stab EACH OTHER to death …. and leave the rest of us well alone…. my heart goes out to the innocent young man and his family………………
Show some respect the lot of you.
Who cares who or where you are from!
We are all human beings.
I believe action is needed — Right now!
Here is my idea for a Petition to Mr Harper.
Dear Prime Minister Harper,
We the people of Canada demand action on Heinous Crimes Against Citizens. We demand an immediate resolution in the House of Commons to acknowledge the need, due to the type of crime committed on the Greyhound Bus on Thursday, July 30, 2008, to reclassify this type of beastly crime outside of the regular Criminal Code. We demand a mechanism for dealing with this kind of terrorist-like slaughter that falls in line with the UN standard of ” Crimes against Humanity, State, Citizens “.
Whatever you want to call it – We are confident your staff can find a name that will fit.
We believe the leaders of this Country are not doing enough on this issue and, thereby, seen as silent. Inaction is not acceptable. Inaction sends a clear and deafening message Canadians and the world that Canada does not deal with heinous crimes in a quick and decisive manner. We the people of Canada demand to exercise our Democratic Rights . Mr Harper, we the people of Canada demand a National vote to allow Capital Punishment within the context of the above proposed new category ” Heinous Crimes Against Citizens “.
If anyone knows how to publish this on the net please let me know and we can get it started. We need a format that can be signed online, Printed and delivered to Ottawa.
I really wish this had never happened or made the headlines in such a graphic way. We all need to band together and bring this issue to the halls of power. We can’t say we are appalled and sickened and in the next moment do absolutely nothing. If you feel strongly please let’s work together and get as many signatures as possible and deliver a strong message to Mr Harper that crimes like these are not just violent they deserve a new category of description and punishment.
I would like to convey my sincere condolences to the victim’s family, friends and loved ones and to all of those who were at the wrong place at the wrong time. May your healing begin and be complete.
Airplanes and buses move from one legal jurisdiction to another and the laws that apply to their contents (human t ypes included) are revealed in cases like this to be laws made by people with very limited imaginations and very little weight to carry! It would seem more fitting that the perpetrator of this crime should be sent to jail in Texas. (If the bus goes there, maybe that could be arranged?) Or perhaps to his place of origin in Asia where his name might receive a bit of a blemish. (Unless cannibalism is the norm there.)
OK, Skid, this shows your ignorance of Americans. And, you want people to respect you as a Canadian?
I have an 18-year old son who is pretty quiet and keeps to himself just like the victim on the bus, so this really hit home with me.
I can’t imagine what this poor young man’s family is going through right now knowing that their son died such a horrific death.
But, I also know that as a mother, his own mother is probably asking repeatedly why someone didn’t help her son.
This forum is supposed to be for the people who wish to make comments on the victim and the killer and the incident itself, not for you to make ignorant, hateful remarks about our country.
Shameful and disrespectful of you toward the victim and his family.
My (American) thoughts and prayers are with the victim’s family. As I stated, I cannot imagine what his family is going through at this time.
I wish Canada nothing but the best and as a nation, I am with you all in prayer for the victim and his family.
God bless you all!
**************************************************************************************
The preceding is in response to the following:
“Skid on August 1st, 2008 3:57 am Typical fascist comment oyochick and cindy…….immediately berating the survivors for not stopping the guy. Come on and you would have done better. Big talk. I am guessing that since you are American you are probably very overweight and probably could not have moved fast enough to do anything. Maybe if this happened in Texas the killer could have shot more people rather than just killing one since he probably would have had a gun. You like to bash Canada buddy but you need us more than we need you………where do you think you get most of your oil. It’s not the middle east. Oh, and water……your government is already begging us for it since half your states are drying up like prunes. You probably don’t know any of this since it is a well known fact around the world that you are mostly a bunch of mentally challenged idiots with the lowest education levels. Your comments show your true nature…..you are closer to the killer in attitude than the survivors. You are a violent race. Just ask anyone outside of your country.”
This disgusting lowlife of a so-callled human, he is human trash, should most certainly get the death penalty. The poor victim and his family are all I have pity for.,and of course the people on the bus who had the misfortune of witnessing this. In this instance I wish one of the bus riders would have had a gun on them to shoot this dirtbag and maybe save the victim’s life some how. I hope maybe from this the Bus companies would start to search passengers luggage and passengers themselves for hidden weapons. It is something to think about. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victim and his family.
Are you kidding me??? How many stories like this have you heard about in Canada? Calling the passengers cowardly? These people are all going to be traumatized for the rest of their lives.
It is a tragedy that someone who is mentally disturbed attacked and brutally killed an innocent victim.
I can think of something far worse: It is absolutely repugnant and inexecusable that not one single passenger failed to intervene and thwart the attack. The attacker was the “crazy” one right?
The attacker should not have been able to stab his victim more than once or twice before someone smashed him to the ground. The victim should have lived, perhaps recovering now in a Winnipeg or Brandon hospital, if one damn passenger would have lifted a finger to come to his aid.
How did this guy even get on a Greyhound bus with a”Rambo” knife!? I guess Greyhound doesn’t screen its passengers – maybe they should start – Amtrak too…
I’ve been thinking about this since I read about it yesterday. Like something from a horror film. That boy did not deserve to die like that. My heart and prayers go out to this kids family and friends. And too the witness’ who will no doubt be eternally traumatized by this.
I cannot immagine there was 37 people on that bus and nobody did anything to save this young man,
It seems there is any brave people anymore. I know that man has a knife in his hand, but it easier to take a knife from somebody without hurting other people than a gone.
I cannot immagine nobody couldn’t do anything about it. I am sure 3 to 4 trong man on this bus could easily take this knife of the hands of this evil man and save the life of this young man.
CBC sucks because instead of leading off with the life of Tim McLean, these insensitive idiots lead off with the life of this scumbag. Pay homage and respect for the deceased first, but in todays world it is more about the killers because they are the ones that intrigue some people more. Tim McLean was just Tim McLean but that piece of crap was a killer who did these things, etc. Ask yourself which story is more tantalizing to the public because after all, the media is just selling you the story, whether you like it or not.
The CBC and the rest of these media outlets could care less about Tim McLean, he is just another sensational story to all of them. It is Tim McLean’s family, friends and community that have to deal with this incident for the rest of their lives. CBC is just on the hunt for the next storyline.
And what about those people in Winnipeg lining up outside to see this animal, everyone was silent. Why?
These kinds of crimes and these kinds of people(like this killer) are one of the reasons why I am actively opposed to prisoner rights organizations. Futhermore, I STRONGLY believe that the insanity defense for murder should be permanently abolished in the entire US and all of Canada! A killer is a killer and his mental state at the time is irrelevant! Some of you apologists may think thats not fair but its ultimately better for society and for the victims families. Both the US and CA have judicial systems which are tilted way too far in favor of ciminals to be effective.
BRING BACK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT OUR SYSTEM IS TO EASY i SAY YOU TAKE A LIFE YOU SHOULD DIE AS YOU KILLED THAT PERSON .. THAT MAN WHO TOOK AWAY THE LIFE OF A YOUNG BOY ON THE BUS YOU BASTARD I SAY LET CANADIANS KILL HIM LET SOMEONE DO BACK WHAT HE DIDAND MAKE HIM SUFFER … BUT THE WAY OUR SYSTEM HERE IS SOME LAWYER WILL REPRESENT THAT TWISTED BASTARD AND HE WILL GO TO SOME SICKO WARD AND OUR TAX DOLLARS WILL PAY FOR HIM TO GET TREATMENT CAUSE SOMEONE WILL SAY “OH HE WAS ILL ..
.. I SAY KILL THE BASTARD ,,, MY HEART TO THE PARENTS WHO NOW HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT THERE SON … A YOUNG MAN NOT EVEN LIVED A FULL LIFE YET .. SECURITY ON A BUS’ SHOULD BE IN EFFECT .. THIS MAKES ME SICK THE CRAZY TWISTED PEOPLE WALKING OUR STREETS NO ONE IS SAFE ANYMORE …
I have a question. HOW DID HE GET THE WEAPON ON THE BUS??!! His weapon was described as a “rambo sized knife” they don’t check bags for weapons in Canada before boarding transportation traveling long distances? Its my understanding that a Greyhound bus doesn’t make regular stops every two blocks like public busses. How did this man manage to get such a large knife on the bus?
Statistically it would have only took one person to act to cause a shitload of other people to react in the same direction. Once one person reacts a domino effect is set off in reaction to whichever road the first person reacts. The first reaction was to run and therefore the majority mimicked. Had the initial reaction been to save the life that’s what wud have been done.
I completely agree with all those people commenting on the passengers. How could 37 or so passengers not overtake ONE man…it was not a gun it was a knife. Yes, he was psychotic and obviously there would be a risk involved in grabbing him, but come on people. When did your humanity fly out the window? It sickens me most not his crime but that EVERYBODY on the bus fled while he was stabbed 50-60 times, decapitated, and gutted. Shame on all of you on that bus that day…how will you be able to sleep at night knowing your coward acts allowed such a horrific thing happen to an innocent 20 year old man listening to music, riding a bus?
A perfect example of a sick mind… oyochick! Man, I can’t believe the way this person thinks! I believe sick minds begin at a slow rate and i would say that oyochick is on their way …anyone that has no remorse for the living is simply the pathetic ones. I thought too why no one helped the poor guy….but if i was there I know as much as i would like to help him How could I???? I would be totally defenseless against this crazy man…and some people had their kids with them and people of all ages….how the hell can u victimize the innocent to have horrid memories because they were so afraid and the adrenaline inside them pumping so hard they all ran….its just the reaction of the body to do so….not because they are cowards! SHAME ON YOU!!!
MOre has gone on in the states than ever here in Canada so to all the Americans reading my post that made sick remarks to the coward canadians you say they are……then what about the Americans that stand by and watch the shit that goes down there everyday????? And to you oyochick…..why don’t u just pull up about 6 feet of soil and bury yourself in it because its people like you that make this world the world it is…..have some compassion for the living…the ones that will have this vision embedded in their minds forever…THEY.will suffer enough as it is they don’t need to hear the crap that is spewing off your lips!!!!! And I hope you remember what you said in these posts because its that remark that will come back to haunt you forever!!!! REMEMBER THAT!
Back to the lunatic that did this outrageous crime probably came from the states lol….but regardless….where he is from….the death penalty should be in place in this Country and we need to enforce it and we also need to stop more immigrants entering this country as well….for the past 30 years or so Canada has become a Country that it never was…..all because we allow so many different cultures into it that now its a land of Horror! Where did our Country go?
We need to change the laws on crime…and we need to stop the immigrants coming into this Country….or MAYBE THE CANADIANS THAT WERE BORN AND RAISED HERE AND ARE PROUD TO BE CANADIAN SHOULD STAND UP FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN AND TAKE THE LAWS INTO OUR HANDS AND TAKE OUT A FEW THAT DON’T BELONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS….
Skid on August 1st, 2008 3:57 am:
I’m shocked…no Canadian has blamed Americans for this? Did I miss it?
I’m American and I’m FAR from fat..at 6 feet I bet you’re still “fatter” than skinny me.
I suppose a smarta** like you is aware Canada gave up it’s soverignty from a self defense stand point A LONG TIME AGO to the U.S. (NORAD) and NATO and an organization called the United States Navy (not the Canadian, they’re barely capable of patrolling Canada’s frontiers) patrols the high seas protecting free trade and shipping including of course Canadian…DUH!
I’m from the northeast (bordering Canada) not Texas and even I have to admit those male passengers (where’s radical feminazis in situations like this?) acted like cowards….they basically froze…..a group of men could have overpowered a guy with a knife but I suppose radical leftist ideology that’s controlled Canada for 40 plus years has created these men.
Canadians: please excuse some of the harshness of my comments I’m not anti-Canadian and my comments sadly can easily apply to Americans in 2008.
the man who did this is sick, and should die, he needs his head decapitated, just like what he did to an innocent person, no one deserves to die this way, and what were you people thinking on the bus, did you not try to help the poor guy, people are sickening to me.
kill the sycho, he is worthless!
omg..those poor officers that witnessed that and the prison officers that will have to deal with that thing everyday.
My thoughts and prayers to all the families.
sheessss
Well…horrible, disturbing happening. Much like a nightmare I would imagine. An act of absolute brutality and madness.
For the passengers it wasn’t just a matter of fighting a man with a knife… they would have been disoriented and terrified. A bus isle is thin, even getting off the bus would’ve been an act of courage.
Unfortunately it does seem that many Americans are very ignorant and much too gun happy. Even if someone did have a gun, to use it they would have had to take a life! The guy is insane, was doing something heinous, but I think that actually killing someone (even for the right reasons) would be a really hard thing to do. (Or at least if we are at all human it should be)
The amount of violent acts happening all the time is so scary. If only we felt responsible for our actions and respect for other people (and the planet). It’s not the death penalty that will stop these things from happening. It’s discipline (in our early years) education and role models (being proud of people for GOOD or RIGHT reasons). But there will always be crazy people.
Such a very sad tragedy.
I think Canada needs to look at his mental health system.
What a one sided, awful thing to say oyochick & Cindy and the rest of the people who think that its partially the passengers faults for not avenging the victims death. “I hope those blood-curdling screams haunt them till the day they die.I hope those blood-curdling screams haunt them till the day they die.” – oyochick. A big round of applauds to you for being the most disgusting American other than Bush. The victim was at the wrong place at the wrong time becide a mentally insane murderer. If you were on the bus I think you would have done the same thing that the rest of the passengers had done and run for your life. Like the ex-cop said mentally insane people like the suspect probably have no sence of pain and if you were to go and try to defend yourself/ others you would probably have turned up like the victim. I am sad to hear the suspect was not shot even though there was no one on the bus but I personally would rather the guy to be shot dead then to be in the mental institution for a couple of years and then released because he seemed normal again.
(I don’t know why my other comment turned out like that)
It makes me sick to my stomach, just to think about what happened on that bus.
Poor Young Guy.
I really can’t believe no one try to help that young man. They were only
cowards traveling. They all should shame of them self and will always remember, they did nothing to save a life.
In the US we recently passed a new bill allowing people that have concealed carry permits to carry on public transportation, excluding air travel of course.
From the sound of alot of you here it seems that most of you believe if there was another passenger with a gun that they would have basically screwed up and killed not just the attacker but others.
If it were you, would you have wished there was some other citizen carrying a gun? I mean, I think the cenario would have played out somewhat like this “Stop, I have a gun, Stop, I have a gun, *Boom*. Is this disagreeable to you? If this man was insane does that mean that he should not suffer the standards of a life and death situation? I think everyone will agree that if someone legally possesed a gun on that bus, this situation would not have gone nearly that far.
Would the man still have died? Maybe, maybe not. If the first stab was to the jugular then, yea, probably. But, even so, I dont think this dicounts that I would have liked to know that he WOULDNT have had any ability to start stabbing others before they stopped the bus and people walked past this guy. It could have been much worse.
I dont think anyone is “Heroic” in this situation. I dont think anyone is “Cowardly” either.
Do you know how many people will throw someone in front of a car to save themselves? I mean litterally. It is a natural instinct to use ANYTHING as leverage to push yourself away from a life threatening situation (a car, etc). So in other words, pushing someone in front of danger is essentially pushing yourself away from the danger. Our first instinct is survival. So you can’t blame anyone. But you can’t call anyone a Hero either.
No object kills anyone. Crazy, Deluded, and Angry impulsive people, Kill PEOPLE.
Try and define, Good and Bad. Hard to these days…
This is all just speculation. Why is so little information about this being released? Why the secrecy? If dude’s NOT a Muslim, Just Say So. If he didn’t tak about the Koran, Just Say So. If he didn’t write things on the bus windows, Just Say So.
You know why they won’t Just Say So?
Because… oops. Getting ahead of myself here.
This is so sad! so what the hell were all the other people doing? they could have jumped the man! He had a knife not a gun! I MEAN COME ON PEOPLE! THEN THE DUMP MAN ON THE VIDEO SAYS THAT HE WAS IN THE MILTARY! THEY COULD THAT HELP THIS MAN.
RIP Timothy Richard McLean
This is so sad! so what the hell were all the other people doing? they could have jumped the man! He had a knife not a gun! I MEAN COME ON PEOPLE! THEN THE DUMP MAN ON THE VIDEO SAYS THAT HE WAS IN THE MILTARY! THEY COULD THAT HELP THIS MAN.
it is a horrible thing to be able to sit at our computers and say shame on them for running or if I would have been there….. this guy had two weapons not just one. was he trained in some way? I say hurah to those who got themselves and everyone else off the bus and then went back afterwards. It is very hard to imagine what each and everyone would have done if it would have been you. Me myself and I would have been out the closest window. And for those arguing about U.S. vs Canada those are the real ones who are to blame. Shame on you what about the victims family, friends loved ones? They are possibly from all over the world. WE are all children of God we should pull together at times like these to protect the chidren of the futrue. To ensure this never happens ever again. I consider all people north and south of any border kin, family, MY FRIEND. Please lets pull together.
This was not a case of bravery vs. cowardice. This has nothing to do with whether Canadians need to carry guns or not. Because face it, people. You cannot paint an entire country with the same brush. The U.S. citizens are not a violent race. Canadians are not pushover pansies who need to get a back-bone. People need to stop thinking of others as ‘Americans’ or ‘Canadians’. Start thinking of them as ‘people’.
I’ll recap:
‘A person with a serious mental illness walks on a bus. While there, he kills someone. People run outisde and lock him in.’
Doesn’t that sound better than:
‘A psycho walks onto a bus and hacks someone’s head off. All the silly little Canadians run away, but the clever and handsome American stands up and pulls out a gun! Unfortunately, since the U.S. let’s any old John and Bob off the street carry a weapon, he can’t actually aim, so he ends up shooting a little frightened schoolgirl. He fires another round and hits an old lady. Since he’s held everyone up, the psycho has managed to slaughter another three people, then the clever and handsome American along with them.’
Hmm…
Come on, people. If someone was actually carrying a gun, they would either be too stupid to fire it or smart enough not to. So, think. Are you going to be an idiot and try to fire a weapon in an enclosed, panicked area? Or smart enough to try to get everyone off the bus safely?
My deepest sympathies go out to the victim’s family and friends. Schizophrenic or not, I hope that murderer gets put away for life.
And calm down Canadians. Stop hating on America.
When you stereotype, it shows how ignorant you are.
@ melanie: Tell that to the Americans. =.=
The fact that this young man was minding his own business listening to music when this happened to him is horrifying. The whole thing is really sad, and I sincerely hope that he was not aware of what was happening for very long.
It disgusts me that the media have discussed the killer’s life instead of the victim’s. The life of the killer isn’t the important one; his life was not snuffed out so viciously. Tim McLean’s life should be the one that should be honored and remembered.
I am an American, and I don’t overgeneralize and assume that Canadians are cowards. If anything, my heart goes out to those passengers. We can all talk all the crap we want and say we would have helped Tim McLean, but as for myself, I have to say that I would have been in shock and run myself. It’s easy to sit in the comfort of your own home and criticize others when you weren’t there. It’s easy to say what the passengers should have done. Not so easy to witness such a horrifying event and hear that scream and being scared out of your mind.
How ridiculous of anyone to criticize, how pathetic. You might as well criticize Tim McLean himself and accuse him of being a coward who didn’t stand up for himself on time. How utterly stupid.
I would appreciate it if the Canadians on this forum do not assume that all Americans are the same. We have our share of violent people, yes. That does not mean that all of us are violent. How rude to overgeneralize in such a way. If the only person I met from Canada was a racist jerk my first assumption would not be “All Canadians are racist.” Good God.
And if you want to accuse us of being uneducated? Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to sink to the same level as the idiots criticizing those passengers and play the “my country is better than your country” game.
“Unfortunately it does seem that many Americans are very ignorant….”
What in the world kind of GROSS bigoted generalization (not to mention extremely vague bordering on the meaningless) is that? The very comment itself speaks volumes about ignorance.
I said in previous posts I thought the male passengers could have done more and the armed cops could have prevented the psycho from mutilating and apparantly nibbling on this poor kid’s body……surely they could have stopped the psycho from decapitating and gutting the poor kid’s body? I’m American and I didn’t say the passengers needed to be armed with firearms …… and never said Americans were “brave’ while Canadians were cowards; if the same thing happened in America I ‘d say the same thing.
I’m sure there are MANY canadians (not to mention this poor kid’s friends) who think more should have been done to help him.
It sounded like a cross between a dog howling and a baby crying to paraphrase an eyewitness……who on here would be pi**ed off if their friend or loved one was stabbed many multiple times while making a sound like that and then suffering the indignities of being decapitated, gutted and canibalized while strong healthy grown men and later armed cops stode by and basically did little to nothing to stop it? Who wouldn’t be EXTREMELY angry and justifiably so?
The cops could have easily shot him; now I appreciate it’s probably against some regulation but that in itself is ridiculous…..if anyone deserves to be shot to death it’s a psycho in an empty bus gutting and attempting to eat a dead human body while playing with the decapitated head.
And of course I realize it’s very traumatic for the cops and first responders and shooting someone dead even in a situation like this is very traumatic for the cop(s) involved but for God’s sake it’s part of the job, it’s dirty, and no reasonable decent person would hold it against them but rather express empathy and compassion.
Extremely sad; society has become this soft and PC?
We can all sit here and write what we all think should have happened or what we think we would have done in the same situation but the truth is we wern’t there so you have no idea how you would have reacted – I know a lot of you would love to think you are all super heroes but let me tell you … you really arn’t.
Losing this young man is a tragedy and my thoughts go out to his family, what the Canadian system now do with him will be in accordance to their laws today and i’m sure caging this animal will be the result (although i too don’t feel this is enough) – I feel for everybody who was on that bus, what an awful experience.
All you people who state you would have confronted the attacker to prevent even more nasty things happening to an already dead victim are totally deluded ….. If you would seriously put yourselves at risk then you really need to evaluate what is important in you’re own lives.
If an attacker is capable of the initial attack he is not going to care too much about putting you in a box either – I agree with Bruce, you may think you could turn a situation around but i’m sure the reality would be a little different.
Lets all just reflect on the victims family and how horrible this must be for them – getting revenge is no justice for the victim or them.
Im pretty shocked that this terrible story now seems to have taken on a life of its own and has become a Canada vs America debate! Its very easy for anybody to say ‘they would have behaved in a particular way and been able to save the poor kid’ but they weren’t there and I would imagine that in a confined enviroment such as a bus it must have been absolute hell & most would have acted on instinct & andrenaline and been in shock. The poor kid hopefully wouldn’t have had much time to realise what was happening and if he was hit in the neck then it may well have been the first stab that actually killed him. I don’t believe for an instant that there was much anybody could have done and getting everyone off the bus and keeping the killer trapped on was very brave and was all they could do. As for the Death Penalty, I admit that with more and more people being murdered in Britain, I’m for it and have always been when it comes to some of the terrible crimes we have here. Like someone else said there are bad people & sick people everywhere and sometimes there is no way of stopping these awful random killings. I hope that everyone involved on that bus receives the counselling that they need in order to get through this and that my thoughts lie with the boy & his friends & family.
“Deserves death”
It’s funny how many people say that all life should be valued, and then turn on someone who wasn’t in control of his own body! Who are you to deal out death so easily? America. And I’m not calling all Americans evil and war-like, so you can stop with that. But killing people to teach people not to kill people is such a simple-minded way of thinking. Personally, I see it as weakness. Would you want to waste away in jail for the rest of your life, suffering inumerable horrors and being surrounded by much worse people than yourself? Or would you want it to end quickly and painlessly.
Because they don’t kill inhumanely. Heck, I’d rather have the guy in jail than to drift off peacefully in a psychotic state.
And @ John: A lot of Americans are ignorant. But that isn’t a generalization. A lot of Canadians are ignorant. Americans just seem to show it better.
And shooting people isn’t part of being a cop. Saving lives is more important than taking them. If the cops had shot him, that would just be another life lost on the bus.
I do believe we’re in the last days. What this mad man did is beyond wicked, and profoundly heinous.
We’re conditioned to believe “certain” people are/aren’t capable of certain acts, and certain areas of the world are so much “safer” than other places. So, we bask in our comfort zone, totally unaware the evil doesn’t care where you live, or what color skin you have. To turn this into a “Canada vs America” issue, is stupid.
I grieve with this man’s family and friends. He died a horrible, senseless death, at the hands of a demon-possessed monster.
Yes, I do wonder why this killer got as far as he did. But when I think of my own experiences on buses, I’m not surprised. Here’s a man, who’s in a “demonic trance”, and it’s clear that he’s outnumbered, yet he’s able to stab a man repeatedly, cut his head off and continue slashing away? Sorry if that sounds “judgemental”, but yes, how did that happen?
I’ve seen folks sit and just…watch (and bus drivers continue driving), while passengers have been attacked — no weapons, just a physical brawl. Folks act like they’re in some kind of a…trance. And yes, I’ve been the one to holler and even help a driver, who was attacked by a drunken passenger — while others remained in their seats.
I want no “hero award” and I’m not patting myself on the back. But good Lord, I would hope and pray that a bus load of passengers wouldn’t just..flee in “shock”, if I was being stabbed and in the process of being beheaded. If it were your son or daughter (wife or husband), would you be in that much…shock? I hope not. Something would “kick in” and you would intervene — in much less grave circumstances, I might add.
I agree with John